Podcast - Episode 9: Death to Tip Tuesday and Market Updates: Marketing tactics that work

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Death to Tip Tuesday and Market Updates: Marketing tactics that work Lance Pendleton: On this episode of consume, we're going to be talking about the death of Tip Tuesday and a bunch of different marketing tactics that agents use and how they're just not functional anymore. This is Consume the podcast for real estate agents who are tired of hearing the same old industry stuff and want to experience something completely different. Hey there everyone! So this week we are talking about, uh, a topic that Lucy and I have actually debated for years, literally years, uh, back and forth, because we have vastly different opinions and actually we have a very similar opinion, but, uh, we go slightly differently on some of these. But we're talking today about the death of Tip Tuesdays and, uh, market updates and all of the marketing tactics that are going to work best for you as an agent. And I know, uh, Lucy, having the marketing background, you're always excited to talk about marketing things. But first, how are you doing? Lucy Edwards: Great. Lance Pendleton: Tell me, Lucy. You know, I know you. You you have a marketing background? You love marketing. This is your wheelhouse and your jam. Tell me what your initial thoughts are about the current state of agent real estate agent marketing. Lucy Edwards: Well, first of all, since we are talking about the best 10% of agents, um, and it doesn't matter if they represent sellers or buyers, they. I always believe that marketing strategy is important. Every property deserves the best of the best and they you cannot cut corners. And as far as, um, tip Tuesday or wise Wednesday or whatever you want to call it, as long as it brings some results for agents and for consumers. Uh, I believe that it is. It is a great way to introduce it. And we're talking about social media. So right now it's marketing on social media. I don't believe in just sold and just Listed. I think you have to tell the story in in in your posts and then top Tuesday is a good thing. You can talk about the neighborhood, you can talk about what's happening around the corner. But bring value. Bring the story, bring bring something that will catch an eye. As a matter of fact, I just started my own series, so I have um. So I have like three different parts about price you pay, value you deliver, or how different you are, how how you can differentiate yourself. And then I talk about Matterport and different Matterport, um, product services directions that an agent can use. And I think I well, obviously I think so because I'm using it, but they are going through the roof. So I see that agents are interested, I see reposts, comments. So if the tip is valuable. And and you know, I agree with you on that word valuable. It's been overused. But if the tip really brings results and make agents think I, I believe it's a great idea. Lance Pendleton: Well, I want to separate two separate things though, because again, there's a I want to talk about each thing individually. So there's property marketing and then there's agent marketing. Right. So you're marketing the brand of you as an agent. Correct. So we're talking about two different things two. Lucy Edwards: Different things. Lance Pendleton: Okay. So let's because we just kind of blended them all together I want to I want to start with agent marketing not property marketing. Let's start with agent marketing the brand of an agent. That's because that's the Tip Tuesday thing and the market updates. And that's what that process is. I'm so convinced at this point in time that the last thing from talking to all the consumers that I talked to, the last thing that any consumer needs is an agent reminding them that they're in real estate Because what happens is, is that if you look at how agents currently push out their brand recognition, it's all about reminding somebody, I'm in real estate, so it has no connection to them. Often as an individual has no connection to them in terms of their life, anything that someone would be building meaningful connection with, right? It's just, hey, it's Tuesday, I'm in real estate. Oh, by the way. Thursday. Still in real estate. End of the month newsletter time. Guess what? Still in real estate. That's all it is. It's just reminding people that I'm in real estate and that's where there is no value. It becomes this monotonous, repeated function that nobody really wants, needs or actually cares about, to be honest. Lucy Edwards: Well, agree and disagree. Yes, they are in real estate. There is nothing you can do about it. I mean, you don't have to remind every, every day that I am in real estate, but if you provide a story about what happened to you yesterday and how you saved someone's life because you were able to sell that house quick enough. And maybe someone is moving and they they just need everything to take place, like right now. And you were there for them. That story is important. It is your brand. And yes, you are in real estate. Uh, there is nothing wrong about reminding as long as you are not making it, like, sound old. Like just like you said. Hi, I'm in real estate. If you want to list the house. My name is Lucy Edwards. Give me a call. Here is my phone number that I'm against. Lance Pendleton: But what's the story, though? Lucy Edwards: But the story can be about what happened. What happened that the. Lance Pendleton: Clients needed to know that happened. So we are a wonderful open house today at one, two, three Main Street. So many visitors that just love the fireplace hearth. Well that's. Lucy Edwards: Interesting. Maybe the open house. You have a story about some how someone came in and they were interested and what caught their eye? Yes. Maybe the fireplace, maybe what I used at the open house as a marketing tool. Oh, by the way, I had a laptop with metal pot on a counter, and it just, it just everyone really loved it, so they didn't have to go to the fourth floor. If they didn't want to, they could look at my floor plan or at my Matterport or at my digital twin and and get excited. Lance Pendleton: So what did we just tell everybody though in that process? Lucy Edwards: We well, first of all, it I'm still in real estate and I. Lance Pendleton: You just literally told everybody, hey, I'm in real estate. I had an open house today because I'm in real estate and I sell real estate. Like that's what I'm talking about, though I appreciate you having this discussion with me because I think it's important. But I think that, again, there's such a disconnect. See, I don't think that you should eliminate all of that. But there's brand recognition and there's human based marketing, right? So before we went live, we were talking, I was having a chat with our, uh, podcast producer, um, who's amazing, by the way. And I said, you know, I, I'm not really sure this day and age like how people find an agent. And I asked them, I was like, if you're going to use an agent, like who would you use? You're going to buy and sell right now. And he's like, oh, I've got a friend that I know, someone that I know personally. I was like, yeah, well, that makes sense. It's somebody, you know, you wouldn't just go find some random person on the street. Right. And I think that's the part is that he's developed trust with this individual based on personal connections. Lance Pendleton: And he knows that person is in the business. Right. But it starts with the personal connections. It's about having that developed connection with somebody. And that's the problem is that if you're constantly just telling people, I'm an agent, I'm an agent, I just I do real estate things. There's no connection. There's no development of trust, engagement. You know, we too often I see this need to continue to demonstrate why I'm important, why somebody should use me, what my quote value is. Well, that constant push of what my value is from a marketing strategy standpoint means. Guess what? I don't really have any other value to you besides just this transactional process. And so, I don't know, I look at it from, what can you be doing that allows people to understand more about who you are, what you do, who you know, who you connect with, what things are out there in the world that you care about that others might care about. Long before we get into my open house. Lucy Edwards: And I agree that human side of it is extremely important. Telling the story is being a human, talking about the neighborhood and why you love that bakery that is human. There is nothing wrong with that. Um, I disagree with, um, hiring someone just because it's my friend. I would really like to have that person with some decent credentials. And just just because it's a friend, it doesn't mean that, um, it's that he or she is a good real estate agent and they understand the process, or they have the team that can help when everything goes to hell and they have the mortgage and the we talked about it before and the inspection and appraiser. It's important. It's important besides being a friend. Lance Pendleton: But do you really honestly believe though, that people actually care about credentials? Lucy Edwards: I do. Lance Pendleton: Well, again, but you're not the average consumer. Right. The average consumer. What is their view of agents? Lucy Edwards: Well, I think experience and also experience is important. The track record is important. And I always talk to agents saying that everything you do today for this particular listing is your investment in yourself, because you have a record of how you treat a $200,000 condo versus $2 million, uh, luxury home. You treat. Lance Pendleton: The same. Totally understand that. But I want to go back to the question, though. The question is what does the average consumer think about real estate agents? Lucy Edwards: The average consumer assumed that they are there to get them. The average I'm talking about the average. Lance Pendleton: I know the. Lucy Edwards: Average. The average consumer thinks that agents are taking advantage of them. They are not delivering 100% of themselves. Maybe they are not even knowledgeable enough. So that's the average. Lance Pendleton: So they're all the same. They're basically all the same for the most part. Okay. So if you look at the average consumer talking about what our amazing producer was just saying, though, is he going to go to a random person and do the research on who has the record and blah, blah, blah, or is he just going to default to somebody that he trusts? Lucy Edwards: But then if I still disagree, what does that friend of yours have to offer? I would still like to interview my friend. And another thing is, I don't think I would ever hire a friend to represent me and to sell my home, because if something goes sour, I don't want to lose a friend. And that happened in the past. Lance Pendleton: Sure. I don't disagree in that sense, but at the end of the day, though, what he's saying, and I think what I want to focus on is what he's saying is I trust that person and trust is above records, credentials, history, all that stuff. Yes, it's a part of, but the trust factor is the most important thing. So what is it that agents are putting out in the marketing of themselves and their brand that distributes and shows trust? Zero. Nothing. Why? Because we're busy running around my open house. My just sold my new listing. The hot new coat of paint your front door in spring. My newsletter, my newsletter, my newsletter. Nobody gives a shit anymore. They don't care. And that's why for me, at the end of the day, if you don't put yourself out there as a person to develop connection, right? To foster relationships and to allow other people to come into your world to understand more and learn about you. Most of the agents and Lucy, I think you would agree with me on this. Most agents, when you say we'll put things about yourself out there, what do they tell you? Lucy Edwards: They usually don't put too much about themselves. Lance Pendleton: I don't want anyone to know. I don't pictures of me. No, I don't want to. Well, do a little video. Oh, video. I don't want to do video. I don't, I don't like things about myself being out there. Well, and that's the problem, right. So it's just completely bass ackwards at this point in time in what it is that consumers are actively looking for in a developed, nurtured relationship, in how we're just thumping this brand concept out there and everybody. Lucy Edwards: And I agree with you, though, it is changing and we're talking about social media. There is more and more social media posts about holidays, how I celebrated Christmas. Happy New Year. Um, you know, there's the right place and the right platform for everything, but there are more and more photos and videos and jokes and everything else. How agents feel and how human they are. I'm very. Lance Pendleton: Instagram. Are you looking at? Lucy Edwards: Oh, no. Look. What? Look at Facebook and all the jokes. And, uh, I. Lance Pendleton: I'm not on Facebook anymore because I haven't used Facebook in five years since I don't. Lucy Edwards: Like Facebook as much. But some of my agents, some of my clients, they are very, very involved in, in Facebook. And that's why I feel that I should be there to understand what they're up to, because that is my job. I'm more about LinkedIn, and LinkedIn is more professional, so you won't have that many photos of your family on LinkedIn. But look at Instagram. Lance Pendleton: Yeah, let's do it. I'm going to do this while you're talking. Lucy Edwards: Look at my Instagram. I have my grandson learning how to ski. Lance Pendleton: No no no no no. We're talking about agents in general. Not not what you do. That was a nice try. Let's see. I'm gonna go. Lucy Edwards: Nikki field. Nikki field. No no no. Lance Pendleton: No no no no no, don't cherry pick right now. I've got thousands of agents that follow me on this thing that I can see. So let's just scroll through here. I'm going to pick the. And I actually, believe it or not I've muted a few things here. Hold on. Here we go. Here's an agent. Uh, and by the way, I'm not I'm going to black this part out if I possibly can. Oops. Nope. That was bad. Hold on. But I just want to, like, point out I'm going to fuzz this out. But, like, here's the thing with like, again, it's just like the inside of a house tour that we're going through right now. Let's go to the next one. Hold on. Uh, here's my new client, whose house I just sold. Uh, let's see, I'll scroll to the next one. Uh oh. Hey. Guess what? Paint colors. Oh, that's a good one, too. Let's go to the next one. You want me to keep going? Lucy Edwards: Well, listen, is that the same agent you're going to? Different agents? No no no. Lance Pendleton: No no, I'm just scrolling through agent feeds. This is just different agents. Cheers to a new year. It's a picture of them, by the way. Standing there. Cheers to a new year. Um, let's see what else we got here? More paint colors for rooms. That's good to know, too. Uh, hey, guess what? Paint colors and book design. That's another good one, too, because that's Lin's. Lucy Edwards: Maybe that's your agents, but I when I. Lance Pendleton: My agents, I'm literally scrolling through agent feeds and this is my this is my point. Like again top agent by the way more decorating tips. Like this is the thing no one gives a shit, Lucy. That's the problem. Lucy Edwards: And I agree with you that everything. You are the one who created the word humanized when we talked about metaphor years ago. That's right. And you said that it is important to humanize Matterport because that's what will make agents feel comfortable using the product the same thing. They should humanize themselves and talk about themselves. And there is nothing wrong with doing a video, even if you don't, uh, if you go to my Instagram, I'm there diving, my hair is a mess. And, uh, I totally do not look pretty over there on that. Are you. Lance Pendleton: Kidding me? I thought you looked like Brooke Shields in Blue Lagoon. Personally. But that was just. That was just me. But, you know, then again, I might be a little warped. And I don't want to get beat up by your husband because he scares me a little bit because, you know. Lucy Edwards: But that's how it is being human. You know, we don't always look the best, but I had the most fun. I think my expression was the best ever because I was happy. Lance Pendleton: But but you. But but let's talk about humanization, okay? So, you know, when you and I had that conversation back in the day regarding Matterport, what I, what I was focusing on at that time and still focus on for a lot of folks is, you know, technology can be humanized. When I say that we need to humanize our relationships with people, helping somebody understand how to use a piece of technology in order to develop a bigger, stronger connection with others is incredibly important, right? So taking a piece of technology that, again, for many people think, well, these are 3D tours of a home. Awesome, right? Cool. That's one element of it. And can that be used for again showcasing property that might be on the market? Absolutely. But what I view it as is, how do I take that tool and then humanize it based on real things that I've experienced? So when we had a, um, a flood in our home. Yeah. I had to get a public adjuster. I'm a huge fan of my public adjuster. Big shout out to Michael built, uh, Atlas adjusting. He is phenomenal. And if you don't know what that is, hit me up separately and I'll tell you all about it because he's fantastic. But we had to then go through an insurance thing to get all of the things covered from the flood. Lance Pendleton: And you know, what was amazing was it was at that point in time where I was being told I had to itemize these things and look up this and find out that blah, blah, blah, and what was lost in the damage. And I was like, oh man. And I realized, you know, when tragedy strikes and there's a problem here, I wish I had had a 3D tour of all of this area, because then I could just submit that to somebody and go look at everything. This is everything that was just damaged or lost. So that's when I had the idea of, well, hold on a second. This is a problem I've had. It's an experience we've had in our lives. It relates to things that I come in contact with regularly in homes. So what I did was as part of my marketing, quote unquote, I put a couple of posts out talking about the experience. Right. Talking about then my experience with a public adjuster and how wonderful it was. And then on top of that, which was most important, I talked about the my learning from that, that I was now with every buyer closing, gifting a matterport tour after closing because I wanted them to have a sense of security as part of, hey, you've got this beautiful home, you just moved in regardless of price point, I'm going to gift you this Matterport tour so that you have something that God forbid with an introduction to the public adjuster, you now know how to deal with something properly and you're protected and you're secure. Lance Pendleton: So that's where I was saying. When you humanize a product and it's not just about what people think of it as in the typical everyday stance, That's the benefit to having, again, different experiences with something. And it's an amazing touch that shows somebody after the fact, hey, look, I'm here in a relationship with you based on human life, things that happened, this happened to me. I don't want it to happen to you. And here's now what I've learned from that and how I've increased, not increased. I've improved my business right. By incorporating things that we have as real life problems. So I just want to put that there as something, because that's what we were talking about in the humanization element of things. But what I think is most, um, impactful, Lucy, is when you talk about the this concept of, you know, humanizing ourselves, we've got to stop being afraid of it because there's this idea that people aren't going to take me as seriously, and they're not going to think that I'm a top agent doing top things with the luxury market. Lance Pendleton: If I actually talk about real things that are going on in my life. And that's just not true. I used to I replaced all of my Tuesday tip things and all that stuff with every Tuesday. I would put out my parenting fail of the week literally. So I am I when I when my wife and I met and first started dating, she had two amazing kids from a previous marriage. They were three and seven, almost four and seven at that point in time. I had zero children, had never been married. Lucy I knew nothing and I mean nothing about kids. I didn't know what to do. I literally like when Josh was little and he'd need something. I would sort of like, pick him up and bring him over to Megan and be like, hi. I'm like, hold him out, right? And be like, I don't know what it needs, but do something. Like, I had no idea what to do. Lucy and I realized, like, I am really bad at this. And I know, like all parents, the kids don't come with instructions stamped on their asses like you don't really know what to do with them most of the time. But I was really bad. And so I realized make that a part of my experience, right? Make that a part of my experience of helping families with their homes, but also understanding the fact that I have no idea when it comes to kids. Lance Pendleton: And it was amazing the feedback and responses and people laughed because I didn't know what to do half the time. So I would put literally every Tuesday. I was like, here's my parenting fail of the week. You know, where I would show different things? Where, you know, we bought this house and there was a car. It came with a cart, a poker table in it, literally. So I started teaching the kids to play poker, and Meg was like, I'm not really sure that, like, blackjack is something you want to be teaching to kids. And I was like, okay, here you go. So it's a picture of them playing blackjack, you know, for money. And I was like, they probably a bad idea, right? But anyway, long story short, that's the point. That's the thing that people connect to us. Being who we are is what builds that trust element that we talked about in the beginning of driving people toward feeling connection and no longer doomscrolling like I just did through a bunch of random ass stupid posts that nobody really cares about. It's not relevant anymore. Lucy Edwards: I agree with you. At the same time I do. I totally agree with you. However, there are also stories that you can be trusted and you can build the relay. And you know how I believe in relationships. My whole business was built on relationships. I built relationships first, and then I built the business, and I and I strongly believe in that. And that's why everything I have built in New York area, it's still flourishing because it had the right foundation. It had the foundation of relationship, of trust. Uh, they could call me 24 over seven. I know you disagree with that. My husband disagrees with that as well. But but, um, they trusted me. They trusted that I will never offer anything for their property that they will not benefit from. So when I say you have to do the drone and they didn't want to spend the money or they didn't think it's valuable, but they would agree with me because I would never offer for something you don't need. So trust is very important. Doesn't matter what you are doing and what kind of agent you are. Lucy Edwards: I agree 100%, but you can build the trust even with someone you don't know. When we bought a house here in Florida, I didn't have an agent. I just accidentally. We went across the street to an open house. We had no desire to buy that condo. I just wanted to see what? Florida. We just moved. Uh, what Florida condo would look like for that price point. And I really liked the agent. The agent who showed me. I think I told you that story. She took me to the balcony and she said, you mentioned that balcony is extremely important for you, and you guys like to hang out and have breakfast. That's what the balcony looks like. And then you have a whole city of air conditioning units on your right below you. And it's so noisy that you cannot even talk. That is the agent I can trust, right? But at the same time, she said, but now I know what you need. Let me work with you. Sure. You see? So she built and died. I had never seen her before. Lance Pendleton: I know I don't disagree, but you were moving to an area where you knew no one. So. I mean, I understand that you went and had to find someone, and they developed trust relatively quickly with you by pointing out, that's great. And I'm not saying that that doesn't happen or shouldn't happen. By no means. I'm just saying the average consumer, when faced with, I'm going to be buying and selling in a market that they're currently in, often will go to what is a known factor, someone they know, a referral that came from someone they trust. It's a trust based factor, that's all. That's all I was saying. But I want to pivot because I know I don't want to. I don't want to spend too much time because I know how much you love property marketing. So I'm going to shut up for a minute, and I'm just going to let you have at it with property marketing, because it is an integral and important piece of of a real estate agent's world and transaction and consumers as well. So let's talk about it. Property marketing. Why does it matter and why is it relevant? Lucy Edwards: Well, it's it's extremely important. First of all, you have to have good quality. You should not be taking your pictures because it's disrespectful to the seller. When you run around as an agent with a cell phone, I can do that myself. If I decide to sell the property, I think the the right thing to do. You are hired as a professional. You need to do everything professionally. So as an agent you should hire a professional company. I hear over and over, oh, I used to be a professional photographer. I love taking photos of animals and flowers. It's not the same. You are a realtor, so you should hire a company or a professional photographer who will help you build that right strategy. I believe in offering 24 over seven digital twin with the help of Matterport and a lot of agents still. Now even if I give them $100 or I will give it to them for free. They don't want it because they don't understand it. They don't feel comfortable. And when I try to explain, you are selling something in Florida, in South Florida where you have a lot of international buyers, where people are moving from all over the United States, you have to have a 24 over seven open house and digital twin will offer that, and they still don't take it. So for me it's like goal in life when I. Lance Pendleton: Okay, but why why don't they take it. Lucy Edwards: Because they just they're saying they're dizzy. They don't want the buyers to be dizzy. They don't want to turn off the buyer. And and then another reason is listen to this. If they come to see my house at the open house and they don't like it, I have another three houses down the street I can offer if they see Matterport, and they could zoom in and zoom out and see all the details, there is no reason for them to show up at the property, and that is a wrong way of thinking. Lance Pendleton: I mean, I couldn't agree with you more. It's one of my favorite things when I ask agents, well, why don't you use, you know, Matterport for your properties? Oh, I get dizzy using it. I don't I don't like it. I'm like, it's not for you. You're not the person that it's going to be using it every day. Right. Like to me that's the biggest bunch of horse crap I've ever heard in my life. And again, as someone that talks to thousands of consumers as my job, I can tell you they freaking love it. Stop it. Like, knock it off. It's not about you. It's about them. Now to the other point that you made, which I think is a very important point. If it's more important for me to do what's right, because again, I don't know how better to explain this. Let's go back to the definition of fiduciary duty. My job as a real estate agent is to do My fiduciary duty. Which means I am to put you meaning my clients personal and financial interests above my own. That is what we signed up to do. That is what we do. And the minute you say, I'm not going to do X, even though it's in the best interest of the client because it will affect my ability to source new clients, guess what? You're not doing anymore. You are not protecting your client, and you are not doing your fiduciary duty to them. Lance Pendleton: And that is exactly why real estate has the reputation that it has currently from the agent world. That is exactly what needs to change. And again, it's not about us anymore. It's about what is the right thing to do for my client because I protect their fiduciary best interest. That is my duty. Now, when you have somebody, Lucy, and you're talking about doing property marketing itself, I want to I want to challenge one notion here. I think, and I say this to a lot of the consumers that I talk to. I always say that if you interview an agent and the lion's share of their time is spent explaining to you the glory of their marketing and all the things they're going to do marketing your property. Run! Run away from them because they have nothing for you. They have nothing. Because at the end of the day, we all have the same marketing, whether we choose to use that or not, whether we do it well or not. Different question, but we all basically have the access to the exact same things. The most important thing to recognize in this is what you're looking for are points of differentiation. So it's not enough to be able to say, oh, well, I've got phenomenal photography and I've got great videography because guess what? Everybody can say that whether they do or don't. Lance Pendleton: Different question, but we can say it. So what I want to do or show points of differentiation Lucy, and what I do. So when I explain to somebody about property marketing, one of the things that I'll say as an example is look, Whenever you're ready to go, live here. As soon as you sign, I'm going to go around the house and take specific pictures. Very close up of some really cool, unique features that your house has. And I'm going to begin a slow online social media campaign talking about an amazing property that I've got coming soon that has this really cool fireplace, mantle, and hearth that's got a really cool doorknob on the front door that's got a really cool, it's got awesome fire engine red stove knobs. Right? Those are the things that I want to begin a drip campaign out there to drive interest from people into, ooh, that's cool. What does Lance have coming soon? What's coming on the market? What are those things that's specific. And again, I'm not violating anything because I'm not saying an address before the listing goes live, but I'm building momentum and I'm getting my client to understand that I want to drive momentum into a property and the smallest things like that. Right. But that is differentiation, because I'm telling somebody these are specific things that I'm going to do that other people aren't going to talk to you about. Lance Pendleton: So again, the use of Matterport. Not to harp on it that much, but again, the use of Matterport in a digital twin and all those different things. If all agents are out there and you just said not great agents, they're like, well, I know I get dizzy, I don't want to use it. And I go in there and I say, not only am I going to use it, but I can drive up to 3.5 minutes, which is ten times the amount of time, by the way, that somebody spends in a property on your property. I can leverage that tour, by the way, by holding it back if I want to, and then put in the listing that if you want private access to a 24 hour tour, let me know. And then I can share that link after they've provided me with the appropriate information. There's a lot of really cool, specific things that I can do with that. That's differentiation. So that's what I look for, Lucy, in how I engage with marketing rather than, I'm going to do this and you'll be in the Beijing Times and you'll be because that's the stuff that okay, great. Everybody has that. My brokerage, our network, nobody cares like they really don't. Most consumers don't really care. Lucy Edwards: And and yes, I totally agree with you. At the same time, everything is available for everybody. Matterport Professional Photography, Beijing Times It's all available for everybody, but there is a small fraction of agents who are using it. So that's why, you know, marketing 101 hire professional photographer because a lot of agents won't even do it. Oh, my house is only $900,000. $900,000 is a lot of money. Lance Pendleton: Yeah, well, I mean, but do you know a bunch of top 10% agents who we're talking to that aren't using professional photography? Lucy Edwards: No majority do use. Yeah. Lance Pendleton: So like, right. So but I hear you and I think it's important and I know we got to wrap for today. But it's important I think in this conversation to remember that if you're out in the world right now as an agent and your focus is on, again, repeating the status quo, doing the things, whether it's your marketing for a property, whether it's your brand marketing that are the same things as everybody else, stop doing it. It's a waste of time, energy and money. At this point in time, you need to start looking for those key points of differentiation, several which we just talked about today that are going to help a consumer see the difference between you and somebody else so that they view you as who you are first, then view you as an agent second, and then view you as someone who's different than everybody else. Third, that's the path that you want to follow moving forward 100%. Lucy Edwards: Agreed. And just to remind, and I know we spoke about it before my daughter's house went coming soon with Matterport and was sold in four hours. Cash offer asking price. The property was in Fort Lauderdale, Florida and the couple who bought the house, I'm in their mid 30s, um, bought it from Los Angeles, moved from Los Angeles. So here we go. Lance Pendleton: Fabulous marketing opportunity right there I love it. And thank you Lucy, as always. It's always a pleasure debating things. Lucy Edwards: Well thank you.